Success Starts Young: Closing Achievement Gaps Where They Begin

A National Symposium on Early Learning Standards, Kindergarten Readiness, and Technology and Early Learning

Technology and Young Children’s Learning
September 18, 2015 — National Press Club — 2:00 PM

People in this video:

Michael Levine
Andrea DeBruin-Parecki
Chip Donohue
Lisa Guernsey
Ana Blagojevich
Duane Little
Yvette Donado
Michael Fragale
Kevin Clark
Ed Greene
Krista Scott
Barbara Steinem

Transcript Body

Michael Levine – Hi, I'm Michael Levine. I direct the Joan Ganz Cooney Center at Sesame Workshop, which is an independent research innovation center. Before I go on with this treat that you are about to experience with me, this wonderful panel, can I just pause and say two thank you's? One to the event and forum organizers, just a terrific job. Let's give the folks who did that a hand. And then second, I don't know whether she's here. Yes, she is. Rosemary Truglio, that was just so inspiring. Can we just give another hand to Rosemary for a wonderful presentation? Thank you.

So this morning's discussion, and Rosemary's keynote and the provocation from Abby Cadabby I think set up a really great conversation about the topic of our final plenary panel, technology and early learning, and we have a new word, like a new way of thinking about this thanks to Abby. We have a twinkletastic crew to discuss what many parents and educators may think of as the elephant in the room. So technology and early learning is a topic of great debate and a lot of passion these days, lots of different positions on it. And thanks to pioneers, many of whom you heard from today, from Sesame Workshop and, National Institute for Early Education Research, and ETS and others and the members of this panel, increasingly we have data and emerging best practices to help us sort out the hype, and illuminate and scale up those research-based bright spots.

So let me introduce our panel. You are, as I suggested, in for a treat. They'll be responding to; we're going to do this a little bit differently than some of the other panels. Won't be any PowerPoints. I'll be giving them a bit of an opening prompt, and then we'll kind of go quickly lightening round with my colleagues, and then we'll have a lot of interaction on this panel. First up, and I'm not going to read the bios. Dorothy has frequently reminded us that active reading is a good thing to do, so I want you to read. But I will give you a little bit of context for why these folks are on the panel.

On-screen: [Kevin Clark, Director, Center for Digital Media Innovation and Diversity, George Mason University, Professor of Learning Technology, George Mason University]

Michael Levine – So first up is going to be my friend and colleague, Kevin Clark, who's a professor at GMU nearby here, George Mason University. He's an expert on educational equity, diversity, social development and all things digital. His work is incredible. You're in for a treat.

On-screen: [Ed Greene, Senior Director for Educational Outreach and Partnerships, Hispanic Information and Telecommunications Network]

Michael Levine – Next up will be Ed Greene of HITN, the Hispanic Information Technology Network. Ed is a world-class expert on family engagement. He'll be talking about transmedia. He's done an incredible amount of work on media development, community development, fatherhood involvement in community enterprise and he'll be second.

On-screen: [Chip Donohue, Director of Technology in Early Childhood Center, Erikson Institute, Chicago]

Michael Levine – Our third speaker will be Chip Donohue, head of the Early Education and Technology Center at Erikson Institute. He is the leading authority on how to use tech in professional development and reform.

On-screen: [Lisa Guernsey, Director of the Early Education Initiative and Learning Technologies Project, Education Policy Program, New America Foundation]

Michael Levine – And our final cleanup speaker will be my friend and colleague, Lisa Guernsey of the New America. She directs the Early Learning Institute and the Learning Technologies Project at New America, and Lisa is a leading authority on early learning policy, an accomplished author who I am proud to have worked very closely with over the last year and you'll hear a little bit about our joint enterprise.

So just to get us started, and my colleagues will take no more than five minutes — I will cut them off at six — I want to introduce Kevin. So, Kevin, my question to you is, as a pioneer in media and technology research and design practices, you have emphasized both digital equity and promoting diversity to enhance learning pathways. I think this is really of signal importance in sort of shaping the themes for our panel. So can you tell us a little bit about the big issues you're working on, where you think tech research and design should be heading to help the gaps in learning and social development, and can you comment on what you see as sort of coming downstream since you work not only with young kids, but with teens and ‘tweens in terms of your research? That's a lot to say in five minutes, but please try.

Kevin Clark - So because I have five minutes to go through kind of everything I know, I know, I know. So I will start by saying when we talk about equity and diversity that that means at all levels. That means not only equity and diversity in consuming the media, but equity and diversity in producing the media. So we should have diversity around the production table and there should be equity in who gets that type of media.

When we look at; if we start with books, for example, and we look at the diversity breakdown in books, we know that there is an issue. We understand that only 3.1 percent of children's books feature African-American characters, and it is 2.1 for Asians and 1.5 for Latinos. That's problematic on a variety of levels, but from a technology standpoint it's problematic because a lot of the media and technology properties that are created tend to come from books, and so you don't have you don't have a pipeline or a source to draw upon. Why is all of this important?

I spend the majority of my time and effort looking at interactive media games as well as media. My research, at least in gaming, has showed that young people, and for me young people is elementary school — I typically work from elementary to high school — and when young people were involved in the design and the creation of games, they tended to benefit more in the areas of self-efficacy. And we also did a longitudinal study over four years where we saw their academic self-reports go up, as well as their language in those content areas like math and science. So for us the active activity of actually creating games played a huge role in their academic achievement. So what does this have to do with how children learn?

We understand that technology and media, one, enhance learning through active engagement, through participation in groups, through interaction and feedback, and through making connections to the real world. So with those four things in mind, we have to understand that equity and diversity would only accentuate those learning aspects, because as Chris Dede, the famed educational technology scholar, has said, education and media should be used to create an education ecosystem where children can do two things. One, they can understand their environment, and then secondly they believe that they can transform it. And so when we create technology and we create media, we need to be able to foster it so that it does those two things.

The other part; I'm going to talk about other work that I do now around media. And when we talk about media, oftentimes we look at television and movies, and one of the big things now is STEM, and there's a huge, huge push to broaden participation in STEM. And when you look at the amount of money that government agencies like the National Science Foundation have spent to broaden participation in STEM, and then you compare that to how many people decide to be a forensic scientist after seeing CSI, we laugh, but that demonstrates the power of media. There are articles that show after CSI aired the number of people who enrolled in forensic science programs around the country increased dramatically. So media has, it plays a powerful role in the formation of ideas, the development of perceptions. And I had highlighted a bunch of articles that I was going to quote all of this research, but I'm not going to do that. Suffice it to say that there are empirical studies that show, one, images that are shown have an impact on what children think they can do both currently and in the future, and so we need to understand that creating a show today is going to impact a child down the road. We also found a resource that shows that stereotypic depictions have an impact. So when we go and we do the counting, we say, "We've got one of these, one of these," but one of those is a stereotype, we know that that has a negative impact.

So my time is up. I'll end with one statement and that is that I'm really excited about where we are in the way of media and technology. We have technology that can allow us to create at a rapid pace. We have research and practices that allow us to make sure it's effective, and so now I think is an opportune time to begin to create media using diverse populations and targeting diverse communities. Thank you.

Michael Levine - Okay, a model for substance and brevity, and we will get into some of the research and the links, and perhaps that's something that could be part of the report that we'll put online. We can add that. So, all right, Ed, Kevin laid out some of the fundamental issues that relate to, a few of them, that relate to diversity and equity in both research and design practices around media. You've been working on a very powerful response, yes, through community research, transmedia production for low-income Hispanic-Latino families at HITN. So come on up and tell us a little bit about how you've been doing that and what we should be taking from your research and development at HITN. Thanks.

Ed Greene - Good afternoon. Since I have to do the one-minute waltz in 30 seconds, I won't be providing a lot of background and detail, but I just want to provide a context. The work that the Hispanic Information and Telecommunications Network has been doing over the past three years is as a result of a U.S. Department of Education Ready To Learn grant. And it was one of the first Ready To Learn grants, and Sesame received one of these as well, that focused on a transmedia approach, meaning that it's not either the print or the television, but it goes across different platforms. And that goes, in terms of how we've looked at it, from those things digital and non-digital and then things that occur face-to-face with that information.

So just very, very quickly, I just wanted to say that this work has been informed by several types of focus groups and consultants. Two of them, one of whom you heard today is Dorothy Strickland, who worked with us specifically on the literacy development aspects of young children, and Linda Espinosa, who worked very, very closely with us in looking at this whole notion of English language development. And I just wanted to say that language development and literacy development go together, but they represent knowledge bases that we sometimes leave behind. So we've been trying to really look not only at the areas of literacy development, but how do children acquire language, and specifically how do dual language learners, and in this case we're working primarily in settings with Spanish language speakers, do that?

So we had a series of particular focus points that we used to create our transmedia, and they were based on themes that pretty much represent what early childhood programs generally do, things like things that go, transportation. But it didn't just stop at thinking about, okay, a car, a train, a scooter, a bus, la patineta, whatever, but also talking about what they do, because too often we get stuck in just sort of giving kids rote knowledge and not really getting into anything else. So a lot of the materials that we developed really build language in that allows them not only to talk about the object, but what the object does, prepositional language, going over, around, etcetera.

So most of what we design we design to be used initially in congregate care settings of different types, family childcare homes, public school pre-K, Head Start, a program that you hear more about, Comienza en Casa, which is a program that works with immigrant families that have established ways of working with their children, but also giving adults an opportunity to figure out how these various types of media can be used to help them with their day-to-day living, keeping track of bank accounts as well as helping their kids to become more confident in the use of language.

So the research that has been done over the years that we've been doing this include an external evaluation by the Michael Cohen Group. Within the next six months there will be a report out on all of those data, but I'm just simply going to tell you that what we learned in developing a tablet-based app, which is used to introduce core vocabulary, but also having children have experiences where they use that language a minimum of three or four times in different elements, including gaming elements, very simple for kids but tied to that vocabulary which is tied to the educational instructional themes. And then also we've attempted to look at how families respond to these materials, so that's what I'm going to talk about just very, very briefly.

We have attempted to take what we've learned to the family. So since we're not doing PowerPoint, I'll just bring my box. So we have; we are developing a series of materials that include both the app, but also a set of materials that are directly related. And this particular one, the theme is My Day, and it's to support understanding of times of day, daily activities and related vocabulary in both English and Spanish in a context. So you're not just playing with an object and then moving on to the next thing. So we've taken our playgrounds, as we've called them, directly to different settings, one of which was the national Head Start Family Engagement Conference. We had 50 parents. We had five sets of our transmedia. We had the parents to play with it. We had the parents to give us feedback about it, and it was very interesting that they, particularly those who were interested in working with families that do bring dual language learning, how they could actually, how we could improve that and how we could add other things. And they decided that we needed to develop materials that would be used in a way that did not require the technology, but that could be used in parent engagement rooms in parent information sessions. We have somebody in the back who's going to put one particular piece up.

The other thing we found is that the majority of the families, particularly in our Latino and Hispanic consortium, prefer to have materials that are not just in the technical vein, but that are in the other areas. And we have one example with a partnership that we developed with a group called Ready Rosie. Very many people familiar with Ready Rosie? Ready Rosie is a particular format that can be delivered via the mobile phone or the computer. What you see on the screen is just the template that they allowed us to use, and we have our materials built in, but you'll notice that then there are related videos. And if you'll just stop and just click on one. Do Grocery Store Conversation. Oh, Pantry Time, yeah. Let's see if that comes up.

Off-screen video]

Female Speaker – Okay, little buddy, while I load the dishwasher, I want you to play a game with me, okay? We're going to play a game where we describe items out of our pantry, okay. So look, I have four items here out of our pantry…

Ed Greene - Go ahead and hit stop. Yeah, just hit stop. The point that we were going to try to make is that also these are available — they're two minutes in length — in English and in Spanish. But then if you scroll down, you would be able to see that there's also additional material that tells you how those key words are related, if in fact a parent or a childcare provider wanted to get more information. And then there's an additional video that has someone who provides some background information on why this is important for their child. So what we did was deconstruct our transmedia initiative based on the information that we learned from our development and put it back into a form that families felt that they could use more effectively. We'll talk a little bit more later.

Michael Levine - Thanks, Ed. So our third speaker is Chip Donohue. So, all right, Chip, let's pivot to the adults. I mean Ed just started to talk about parents, but let's talk about the educators who are shaping children's experiences in this world of ubiquitous technology. Your recent book, your pioneering work at TEC has established this wide-ranging knowledge base on what adults need to know and be able to do to promote quality early childhood education. So what do you think are the most important lessons we've learned about the role of technology in children's lives and how is it shaping professional practice?

Chip Donohue - Thanks, Michael. Let me begin with a short quote from the NAEYC and Fred Rogers center joint position statement. "Early childhood educators are the decision makers in whether, how, what, when and why technology and media are implemented through applying their expertise in knowledge of child development and learning, individual children's interest and readiness, and the social and cultural context in which children live. So as digital decision makers, early childhood educators are not unequipped, but they are ill equipped." All of us as analog adults need digital media literacy, a positive disposition toward technology, and the knowledge, experience and competency to support digital age children and their families in the 21st century. So what are the implications of that for digital age pre-service and in-service teacher preparation and professional development? If we want to transform the workforce, we have to bring educators into the digital age. And we need to follow the real leaders. How well we use these devices and how well we use these powerful tools rests in very tiny hands.

So I have three recommendations for policymakers, advocates and educators. One, recognize digital media literacy for early childhood educators as an essential literacy for 21st century teaching and learning. Digital media literacy is a workforce development issue. Digital media literacy is an access and equity issue. Digital media literacy can be a tool to address the digital divide, the digital use divide and learning gaps. Two, integrate digital media literacy across the continuum from pre-service teacher preparation to ongoing professional development and lifelong learning. We got a digital wakeup call from the Cooney Center work report "Take a Giant Step in 2011," but I think we collectively hit the snooze. Teachers and their teacher educators need 21st century learning skills and experiences for 21st century teaching. They need to connect personal and professional use of technology. They need access to curated show-me-what-it-looks-like video examples of best practice in teacher education and best practice in technology integration in the classroom. They need to leverage digital tools for enhanced parent, family and community engagement.

We need research on effective practices and the effective and the active ingredients for tech integration, and we need to translate and embed those findings into teacher preparation, classroom teaching and ongoing professional development. And we need to identify the best practices in digital age teacher preparation and lead teacher-educators kicking and screaming into the digital age so that they can join their students and young children who are already there. We need to use technology to help educators learn how to use technology, a simple idea maybe, but I think more complex than that. We need to prioritize and scale up technology-mediated professional development and train-the-trainer approaches. We need to develop innovative delivery systems for online, blended, hands-on, synchronous and asynchronous teacher preparation and professional development. We need to invest in time and technology for playful exploration and hands-on learning and tech playgroups for teachers. We need to encourage peer-to-peer connected learning for educators in formal and informal settings. We need to get teachers using digital tools to solve digital age problems, just the way the children do. We need to encourage teachers to be media makers so they can help children move from consumers to creators of media. And we need to encourage formal and informal educators to become media mentors who can guide young children, caregivers and families safely in the digital age.

Finally in the digital age we can turn to Fred Rogers for a reminder about what matters most. Fred said, "Let's not get so fascinated by what the technology can do that we forget what it can't do. It's through relationships that we grow best and learn best." Thank you.

Michael Levine - Very powerful reminder. Thanks. So our cleanup hitter is Lisa Guernsey. Okay, Lisa, we've talked a lot recently. Here's my question for you today. It's actually a two-part question. So you've done a lot of policy work at New America, and including work on early learning and development and technology infrastructure. So can you tell us a little bit about what you think the digital age architecture is? What are the main pillars of the architecture as you see them going forward? And then secondly, self-interested, shameless self-promoting, can you also say a few words about your new book, tap the greed and what you believe are the most important steps early learning advocates need to pursue to ensure educational opportunities for all. Thanks.

Lisa Guernsey - Thank you, Michael, and, yes, happy to. And for those in the room who may not know some of the inside joke or the reason we're laughing so hard up here is that Michael Levine and I have been like practically like joined by the cell phone for the past year and a half because we have been working on a book together, joined by the Google doc, and we've been working on a book together and I'll tell you about that in a second.

But first let me just step back for a minute and tell you about the Early Education Initiative at New America. We have been looking at what technology means in the lives of young children for one simple reason and that is that it is in their lives already. It is already a part of the way even very young children are growing up. And so it behooves us as the educators, as policymakers, as the leaders of early learning centers and schools to really understand what's going on there and how to make sure they're using technology in ways that are helping them learn instead of actually impeding their ability to learn.

So what I did on my team at New America about a year and a half ago was to start looking at what policies need to change to help us get a handle on this better. And using the really smart work of Chip Donohue, Kevin, Ed, many people in this room, I have tried to put together a new framework. And I have props, just like Ed did, so I'm just going to pull one up here. So we put together a very slim volume on the digital age architecture for early education and what it could look like. So let me just quickly tell you what five pillars of that could be and then I'll go into some of the things that are in our book as well. Oh, in this? Yeah, and this is on New America's website. You can just honestly google digital age architecture in early education and it's the first thing that pops up, which is a happy, happy thing for me to discover.

So the first is that we just in policymaking, and in our standards and in our teacher preparation we have to aim high. That's the number one pillar honestly is to stop thinking about technology as a baby occupier or something that you just do in the background to like keep kids quiet. No. Like let's really understand this as integrated into their learning. Number two, it's about boosting the workforce, making sure that our early educators, our childcare professionals, our teachers know how to use these materials in a developmentally-informed way. Number three, it's to tap our hidden assets that are all over the place in our communities. And two of them that popped right up are our public media and our public media institutions. So Sesame and its broadcast through public media is a perfect example of that. But also there's all sorts of wonderful content on PBS that can be harnessed in new ways in our early childhood centers, as well as tapping into our public libraries, which are really under utilized in this space, and yet they want so much to be part of this conversation and to help connect families to new tools and new media. The fourth pillar is to connect to information and to each other, which is such an obvious point, but somehow in the digital age early childhood has been kind of left out of this. So E-Rate, for example, as many of you know it is the federally subsidized program or federally funded program to help subsidize the discounting of internet access for schools and libraries around the country. A lot of those discounts do not make it to Head Start centers, are not even part of what childcare centers can have any access to at all. So we need to really rethink those connectivity issues so that everybody can have access, so that our teachers can connect to each other so that they're not having to go home and use antiquated; often they're not making all that much money to be able to put these tools together in their own homes, but using whatever they can they're desperately seeking information and trying to connect online, and they're having to do it when they get home after hours because they have no access in their own office and in classroom work spaces. And then the fifth pillar is to investigate, to really start getting serious about research in this area and to ensure that we have more public funding to help them bring that research to bear. So those are the five pillars.

I know my time is actually short, so let me just very, very quickly note that a lot of these ideas do come out in this book that Michael and I have been working on, that I'm also going to hold up for you. It's not yet in stores, but will be in about ten days, and it's Tap, Click, Read. You can order it now. The title we gave, we really wanted to look at what literacy meant in a world of screens, and the title of the book is Tap, Click, Read: Growing Readers in a World of Screens. And this is a book that's for the educator audience, for parents and for policymakers. Yeah, and happy to. Is the site up there to look at real quick? So I don't know if the video will work. Shall we give it a try? One of the things we did in working on this book is we really just thought there's a way to bring all this together and bring it to life for people so that they can see. I mean just the themes of today are like let's really, let's not just talk. Let's actually see what it means to have a high-quality learning experience for kids. Right? And so we went out into settings around the country to get a handle on what this could look like in libraries, in early childhood centers, in home-visiting programs, and we have some videos that accompany the book and that are on our website that we could pull up right now.

Ana Blagojevich (video speaker) – Milbridge is a rural Maine town of about 1200 people.

On-screen (video): [Ana Blagojevich, Migrant Education Program Coordinator, Mano en Mano, Hand in Hand]

Ana Blagojevich (video speaker) – And there are about 250 Hispanic families in this area mostly because they came here as migrant workers originally to work and harvest blueberries in the month of August. As families started to settle in this area, the school system has tried to be responsive but a lot of times they're not aware of what issues Spanish-speaking families are facing. Comienza en Casa, it starts at home, is a program we started in the spring of 2012 and the goal of the program is to provide parents with the tools and information that they need to help their child prepare for kindergarten.

Lisa Guernsey - Oh, is it going to stop there? Yeah, I know it's hard to sit there and listen to the buffering. Let me just tell you quickly a couple of things that happened in this video. The professional there, the home visitor works with families and brings an iPad that is filled with a personalized suite of tools that parents can use to get ideas for new activities that they can do with their children in their home language and in English. Some of it doesn't even involve necessarily English or Spanish, but there are just lots of visuals about beautiful things they could do together on their back porch, and using the camera and the iPad to take pictures and make little books together, and being able to explore new things at the library and on and on. But it's a way to connect the relationships that are starting to build and be stronger between both the kids and their parents, who are much more engaged with them around these tools, as well as with the parents and the community, the kindergarten teachers, the librarians. So it's a really beautiful example of what can be possible. So thank you.

Michael Levine - So let's get into the mix. I've got a few sort of leadoff questions, including actually a really quick one as a follow up for you, Lisa. So your reporting and your research kind of shows that media consumption or screen time, as your first book was called, is a little bit of a double-edged sword or more nuanced situation than most people believe. So how can we kind of communicate to parents, and practitioners and the public some more about that nuance, and especially when it comes to parents? How can we do that without lecturing them?

Lisa Guernsey - Yeah, the not lecturing part is so key, right? So I'll just quickly say I did a book on this called Screen Time. It came out in 2012. And just from personal experience I will tell you that if you have a flyer that goes out, and I didn't not write this flyer, but if you have a flyer about your book talk that is posted all over a school, that says things like, "Why we need to be careful about technology with our children. Come hear this talk," nobody will come, I will just say from firsthand experience. And why? It's because we're all trying to figure this out, right? I mean this is tough stuff. It is hard to be a parent and you don't want someone suddenly telling you that you've been doing it wrong the whole time. So instead what, and I had to start becoming very active in helping to market this sort of thing, we really need to be thinking about, well, what are the questions that parents have right now? What do they really want to know? And they're fascinating questions, often they're very smart questions. So it's really opening up to where they are, starting with their questions and their needs. So I'll just, you know, one example is that a lot of parents of three- and four-year-olds are seeing how much their children love to watch and play with these tools. They're just absolutely engaged, especially when it's high-quality content. And yet they have questions about whether it's going to affect… So the questions are things like, "My four-year-old has been having nightmares. He's having a hard time getting to sleep at night. Do you think there's something about this particular program that we're watching at this particular time that's having an effect on this particular child?" Those are really smart questions. These are parents that are really tuning in and they're just trying to figure out what's going on. So that would be one piece of advice is to really go to where parents and families are to find out what they want to know.

Michael Levine - That was part of the reason behind Ready Rosie, which …. really see …. like just-in-time information, a minute or two, sort of a burst of science that can enter the water supply. I wanted to just follow up on that point a little bit with Chip and with Ed and with Kevin. So you've all been involved in different aspects of research and development, innovation research, design work, Kevin, and we live in this 24/7 ubiquitous cycle of news, and everybody knows the color of Donald Trump's hairpiece, but they don't know nearly as much as they should about the research and design best practices or professional reforms that you all just spoke about. So what are you doing actively to ensure that word gets out, and what can this community do to help you with that important job? Chip, do you want to start?

Chip Donohue - Yeah, I'll just start with a quick one that isn't quick at all, which is we need a new definition of screen time. The current definition, which is based on one child passively watching one TV, does not serve us well in the digital age. It's not relevant. It doesn't help anybody. It is getting in the way of teacher preparation and best practices in early childhood because teachers are being told, "You can only have X number of minutes of screen time," which is not based on what's the quality of the experience and what's the level of engagement. It's based on when ten minutes is up, that's it. We don't tend to put those limits on book reading and other activities, but somehow the screen has had that. So I think that the need to really coalesce around what do we mean when we say screen time, and some of us are arguing we should stop using the phrase altogether and start talking about screen use, and screen sense and other ways of doing it. But parents are still very much asking for advice about how long is enough and how long is too much, and that's the wrong time is one metric, but it's not the only metric, and we need to really help parents and educators think differently about that.

Michael Levine - Ed?

Ed Greene - Yeah, I was just going to say that in conjunction with some of the work that we're doing, we're taking our experiences to the families in a variety of ways. One is in conjunction with museums. We've had a couple of projects where we worked directly with a museum that is in a part of Newark Public Schools family nights, and bringing them the materials that we have developed not to say, "Okay, buy this," because they're not even available commercially, but being able to say, "Play with this and play with this with your child." So they have the materials that they could play with, but what's interesting is that they don't, the children and the adults won't just default to the tablets we've found if you have other materials that are rich that children, young children tend to like – markers, crayons and other kinds of things that tie into the themes of whatever you have in the app. So back to this transmedia model. We're trying to help people understand multiple entry points for learners. There are multiple ways in which you can reinforce, or teach or introduce concepts, but have things that use basically physical ways of knowing, that means things that you can touch, feel, taste, etcetera; social ways of knowing, getting people talking about things, talking about what they see on a screen and in that storybook that are related. That builds that dialogic reading that can also be tied to the literacy. And then the logical mathematical, not just talking about things in the knowledge and recall level. And the best part about being able to use some of these digital options is that you can look at something and you can compare it to a real thing. So when you compare something on a screen to something in real life, you can ask people to talk about that. And so we've been able to use the materials in a way to help families to talk about things that are relevant in their life, and to use their own devices, not just to be purveyors of knowledge, but the ways that they can create things with their own kids and they learn.

Michael Levine - I like that, more family-centered storytelling that has digital at its center. Kevin?

Kevin Clark - So one of the things that we're involved in is there's a Gates grant that I'm working on where we're looking at how African-American families are using technology for learning outside of school. And this was inspired by a lot of the work that was out there about screen time and how much media was being consumed, and we kept asking the question, "Okay, if this much media is being consumed, what are they doing with it? How is it being, you know, what are those extra questions?" And so one of the things that we're interested in is delving into not just how much, but how, why, when, who's in the room, because we understand that when technology is used, especially in the home, that it's not just one. It could be one person sitting in the corner consuming it all, but in a lot of cases it isn't. And so we think that that research will be used to not only inform how educational software technology can be designed and made, but also for policymakers. And so we've also made sure that we included all voices, or as many voices as we can. So we've done focus groups in urban cities, and then someone politely pointed out to us that we hadn't included a rural city, so we ended up going to Mississippi. And so being flexible in that way, but doing the work so that it applies to not only those who are making the policy, but those who are actually making the media.

Michael Levine - And I should just mention there's a bit of related research that the Gates Foundation is supporting that the Cooney Center and Rutgers University is conducting on low-income Hispanic and Latino families. And so we've been working collaboratively on the instrument design, and I think one of the issues that I just raised is how to have a semblance of consistency in what scholars say, not only what's working and what's not working, but also just in the design of these experiments. It's extremely important.

Ed Greene - I just wanted to mention that I'm really grateful for the Joan Ganz Cooney Center because of the kinds of research that's going on. For those of you who may not have used their resources, they have one particular piece called "Aprendiendo en Casa," which media is a resource for learning among Hispanic-Latino families.

Michael Levine - Learning at home.

Ed Greene - And I want to use this as an example just simply because several people have mentioned that there is diversity among populations both within groups and between groups. And there's a lot of information about who different populations represent in terms of their particular interests. And interestingly enough television and radio are still very, very popular and well-used media that can tie into the other things. So if you have low tech, you know, technology-assisted high-tech kinds of experiences and you have a variety, you can meet some other needs. But I think this resource has been important for us as developers because you've pulled together some of the research that our scientists and others are doing, but you also asked the parents. And this group that you formed I think that comes together to meet and talk about these issues represent families and people who do parent engagement activities. They need to be brought into the conversation and we're finding that that's very important to our work.

Michael Levine - Enough about me. Let's talk about you. I'm very, very grateful for your recognition of that work. So Marian Wright Edelman started out this morning. You know, she was a little cranky. She said she was going to come back and give us a charge later. But she said, and you have to listen when Marian speaks. I mean we've been at some of these issues for a long time. Not the technology issues so much. So given her urgency and what should be our urgency, where do you guys see technology being a value add or an accelerant for the kinds of change that folks in the early learning profession or the learning field have been working on for decades now. Like starting tomorrow, what are some of the ways in which you would like to see technology as a useful ally in early learning reforms? Lisa?

Lisa Guernsey - Well, I'm really struck by how much video can be a tool for showing what good practice and good engagement and just joyful interactions can look like. And it's a tool that's been out there for a long time, but now that it's so easy to share videos and so easy to get them in our hands, we just have to use this more and more to be showing what's really possible with young kids. To me that's almost like low-hanging fruit, but still hasn't been 100 percent picked. And Ready Rosie I think is a great example of that, but there are so many other places where we could be using video as a model for parents and educators.

Michael Levine - Anything on the policy side, like one quick thing?

Lisa Guernsey - A quick thing on the policy side?

Michael Levine - Yeah, is there anything from the infrastructure, digital age architecture report that you'd like to see prioritized next year?

Lisa Guernsey - I would say that like starting yesterday, and this is not so much federal policy, although I know that there might be a way to have some levers there, but in our higher education institutions, in our education schools we need to find ways to encourage our faculty to be using and figuring out how to use these materials with their prospective teachers. Right now.

Michael Levine - So more incentives. Well, that's a perfect; go ahead, Chip, pick up on that point.

Chip Donohue - I hit that one so I'm going to go a different direction. Technology is a tool for learning is the key to me. That's what these things are, right? And if we give young children, very young children tools for learning, they will have tools for learning throughout their lives, and they will know that they can control these tools, and they can answer questions and use them interestingly. So that's one. Social-emotional development and the whole child, we've talked about that today. This is a whole child development tool. We tend to think of it as a cognitive development tool. It is for the whole child. I think that's the other one. Last one is that we call these mobile devices, right? That's the revolution in the classroom. Technology in the classroom was locked on a table in the corner. It was an old desktop computer donated by some parents years ago. It was obsolete. That was the technology and the kids had to go to it. Not anymore. The technology goes where the ideas are happening, where the interesting activity is happening. It goes outside with the kids, right? It goes where learning is happening and supports the learning. That's a big game changer.

Michael Levine - Ed, what's an action step that folks in the room can take?

Ed Greene - I think an action step for me is to be able to use these tools to help provide children what they may not have access to. And by that I mean there are many monolingual English-speaking practitioners working with children who bring dual language to their classroom, but don't have a way to interact. So I think we need to use this technology for those large number of monolingual English-speaking people who are working with children, who are bringing those particular kinds of skills and knowledge to the table. And the reason that that comes up is in our research, when we began to look at the effectiveness of the dual-language learning models, one of the things that the Michael Cohen Group came up with was they found that ELL children who were typically the minority in a classroom had issues that were different from those where the majority of the children and families were Spanish speaking. And by that I mean there was a negative attitude towards children who brought a second language, and it was even exacerbated when the population of families was smaller. When you had a majority of the families who spoke the language and even the caregivers, it was less so. Now that's just a beginning edge, but one of the research pieces is how does what it is that people have as attitudes impact children and families? And that's a byproduct of some of the kinds of things that we found out, and it's been in other articles like "The Alarming Effect of Racial Mismatch on Teacher Expectations," and this just came out in August of 2015 from the Brookings Institute. So we've not talked about; we've talked a lot about what this tool can do in terms of giving people cognitive skills, but they also need to have skills in better understanding the people with whom they work, and we can use that to help that process.

Michael Levine - Hey, Kevin, I'm interested. Say whatever you want to say, but I have a preemptive question. So you've got CPB, PBS, Sesame, others who I may not be aware of in the room right now, and a lot of the research that you've done has been around diversity, and identity and the variety of different stereotype sets are often present. And we've got people who sort of purveyors of best practices here in the room, but what could they be doing better, and what should the rest of the field be doing based on your research in terms of designing media that would promote diversity equity and positive identity?

Kevin Clark - You said I could answer, I could say what I want. Well, I mean I think you're right that the people in the room are the ones that are adhering to best practices. I do think there is always an opportunity to improve. So improving upon the diversity of again the people who are creating it, diversified creative pools, looking at different story lines and different ways of storytelling from different perspectives. With that aside, I want to go back to the question that you raised regarding what could be done right now in terms of using technology. I think targeting families, communities and caregivers on how to actually use technology to do two things, one, to connect and, two, to extend. Connect in a way that people need to be connected with each other. Everybody knows that at an elementary school the bus line is where you find out all the information. Those parents that are standing outside of school, that are waiting to pick up their kids, talk to each other and they know everything. They know the good teachers, the bad teachers.

Technology can be a way of creating those connections and networks so that if I can't be at the bus line I can still benefit. And that type of tacit knowledge is hugely, hugely valuable. Extending, extending the opportunities of those same groups, parents, communities and caregivers to be able to go out and access information regarding national parks or information regarding sites in the city, to use your technology devices to bring those to your home or your classroom, and in a method that is any time, anywhere, so you don't have to wait. So if I had to pick those would be the two ways I would use technology to extend and connect parents, families and caregivers.

Michael Levine - I'm going to open it up in a minute. I'm going to ask one more question and then, so please be thinking about your questions for these great people. So about a week ago or so, actually two weeks ago now, the U.S. Department of Education held the first forum on early learning and technology. Actually several of you were there. It's actually the first national convening that I know of actually on this subject. And Libby Doggett was here before. I don't know if Libby is still around or Steve Hicks, but folks are really beginning to think about this, and there's been a couple of White House conferences that were mentioned earlier in Jackie Jones's discussion, so these issues of early learning and early learning and technology are ripe at the moment. So imagine that you have become the program directors of a new fund to invest wisely in early learning and technology. You've got, I don't know, $25 million to spend over the next two years. Where are you placing your first bets? Who wants to go first?

Lisa Guernsey - All right, I'll jump in. So there are some things that Michael and I outline in the book Tap, Click, Read around this concept of really making sure that families have access to literacy opportunities all around them so that they and their kids can be experiencing and engaging in fun ways with media, including print, including print media, all around them to do that. And we envision this as what we call a kind of a readialand, where media and reading are really coming together for kids. This kind of new ecosystem though is only going to be possible if our public libraries and our early childhood and early learning centers in our schools are working together to figure out the new places that families can come to play and learn and read together. So I would take that 25 million to set out kind of new seeds of opportunity in those communities. As long as you can get some of these players together, these public libraries, let's put public media in there as well, early learning centers and these schools, really create those new spaces for kids and families.

Michael Levine - Chip, how would you leverage?

Chip Donohue - I would be thinking of ways to again go right at the teacher preparation issues that I've addressed, and including how do we get the teacher educators onboard and how do we make reforms in teacher preparation to better integrate these? But as Lisa just said too it's not just formal learning. I think the librarians have come to this party in ways that are so powerful and they're teaching us so much. And as someone who's been in early childhood as long as I have, I kind of wonder why we weren't always hanging out with librarians. That's the power of this, right? So this notion of the librarian as media mentor, which really Lisa helped to coin in a piece that she wrote, we need media mentors to be the adults who are in young children's lives, be it a teacher, a librarian, a children's museum staff member, a parent, a grandparent. So I think that notion of fill in the gap between what we know kids can do with this technology and what the adults are ready to help them do is important.

Michael Levine - I'm curious. How many librarians or folks connected to libraries are here today? A few. Interesting. Marsha Semmel was here earlier. Do you have some suggestions, Ed?

Ed Greene - I guess I'm going to go a different direction because I'd like to do something in partnership with either Lisa or Chip, but it has to do.

Michael Levine - You've got the money now.

Ed Greene - I know. But it has to do with some research that's been going on at the McCormick Center for Early Childhood Leadership on what they call the gatekeepers of quality. And the gatekeepers of quality in at least out-of-home programs are those who have responsibility for leading the work in centers or leading the work as a chair of a group of family childcare homes in a geographic area. So I would like to work in partnership so that those individuals who have the responsibility and are accountable as being the gatekeepers of quality know something about being digital citizens in the 21st century and how it can help to bridge a lot of the issues that we're talking about, whether it has to do with information that families need, whether it has to do directly with dealing with how you use the data that we're finding about the needs of dual language learners and how that can get across. But if you don't have somebody in the leadership position who is helping to provide the framework, then what you have is a system with people running around like herding cats. So I would love to be able to have something in place where I could specifically look at those individuals who were responsible for providing leadership in those settings where you have other people and supporting folks who work under them.

Kevin Clark - I guess my idea would be the creation of a venture fund for innovation that would have certain requirements. It would have to be community based. You would have to have a group of different types of people, whether they were designers, librarians, community members, educators, and that those people would then go out and compete for the funds to create innovative approaches to instruction. Now this doesn't just mean television or games. It would be books, toys, everything. So if you think of RTL, Ready To Learn, if you take that and you make it community based, and you make it apply across all sectors of any educational product and then you force the applicants to be community based and to develop a coalition of people.

Michael Levine - Now that's a provocative idea. Thank you. All right, who wants to ask questions of this esteemed panel? Right here. Have to get a microphone up here. And just remind us of who you are when you speak.

Duane Little - My name is Duane Little. I'm the executive director of Children's STEM Academies. I have several questions for each of the; well, I have several questions. Maybe I'll limit it to one.

Michael Levine - Yeah, let's start with one. If we have time, we'll come back.

Duane Little - I mean my mind …. [laughter] It's about the commercial with the purple head blowing off. That's how my head is like, ready to blow off. I need; teacher training is the basis of my organization. It's the number-one priority for me as the administrator. So how do I get my teachers best practices in technology, using digital technology for learning? Where do I go for digital media literacy for my teachers and myself? Because I am slightly digital media literate, but I need to be more literate. That's your question.

Michael Levine - All right, Chip, go.

Chip Donohue - Well, so STEM, and there's a lot of work being done on the M end of that, right, around early math learning, and one of the things we're learning is that educators come to early math with lots of phobias, fears, bad experiences, don't think of themselves as math teachers. There's a lot of barriers in the way. I would argue that the T in that also has that same thing. We come with lots of resistance to technology. Fundamentally early childhood people are about relationships and holding children close and not about technology. So we can talk. I can follow up with you. But the issue, I think STEM gives us a platform for stepping forward. I will go out on a limb and say when I think of the word STEM, I put the T in the lower case because technology is a tool for all of the others, and that in the very early years what kids need is not to know how to code and write code in technology. They need to use this technology, how to use it to learn math and how to use it to learn science and explore their world.

Michael Levine - All right, one more. Go ahead and then others.

Duane Little - Kevin, I think I forgot my question. I'm kind of like in that middle-aged period of life, so questions come and go real quick in my head. You have to come back to me.

Michael Levine - Okay, no worries. Thanks so much. Other questions?

Krista Scott - Thank you. My name is Krista Scott. I'm with Childcare Aware of America, and much like my colleague here I've got a lot of things going on in my head right now because you guys have given us so much great content. One of the things I've seen though is that even when teachers are incorporating technology in the classroom, they don't know where to get the best content. I've seen a range of YouTube videos in classrooms. I've seen family care providers and kids accessing, you know, "Oh, I saw this clip here and so I'm going to try it at home," which opens kids up to some connectivity issues I think with the internet that we may not want them to at a young age. So do you have any policy solutions or practice solutions for helping teachers, family care providers, childcare providers, teachers access good educational content that may be free of commercials and that might protect children?

Michael Levine - Lisa and Chip might want to.

Lisa Guernsey - Yeah. I'll jump in and then I know Chip will have some. Michael, you may as well. So one thing that, I mean I think this is a really, really important question because right now there is a lot out there and we're at the very beginning of the curation of it. And in the research that we did for this upcoming book, we looked at what the app marketplace looks like when a parent or a teacher just goes into it and just tries to find something. And this was Michael's team primarily that did this research. The findings will be coming out later this year and some of them are in the book, but what we found was that it really; I mean it is a digital wild west, as we've described many times.

Michael Levine - As you described.

Lisa Guernsey - And as you absolutely just described. And that if you look at whether there's any information about whether a child development expert was involved in the creation of an app, whether an early literacy person was involved in any way, if there's any information parents can get on whether these materials were even ever tested in an informal or a formal way with children, like there's just nothing out there. So that's not answering your question. It's just to absolutely confirm your question. And then I will say in terms of answers we had found; we did some research to find who the curators are right now, and there are some players out there that are really trying to help in the space. I think they need help, and they need some guidance in terms of what really is research based and has some evidence and impact. But there are; many of you probably know these names. There's Common Sense Media. There's Teachers With Apps. Common Sense Media has a segment called Graphite and they're trying to apply some of this. I don't think it gets at exactly what teachers need yet because some of it's very content specific. It's for four-year-olds who are working on certain types of literacy activities in certain ways. That's really what teachers need, so we'll have to get down to that. Let me let Chip answer as well.

Chip Donohue - I would just add that curation is the key and that's a high level of skill and knowledge. You don't become a curator right away. That's a digital media literacy issue. The more I know, the more I can curate. I have to know what questions to ask. But remember I started with that we're not unequipped for this. We know something about child development. We know developmentally-appropriate practice. We know content, context and the child, Lisa's three Cs. We have some information to begin the process. I think the first step is trusted sources for parents and for educators. Who can I turn to to help me make choices? But ultimately I'm wanting to grow curators, and then I'm wanting teachers to connect with other teachers in ways that can share information back and forth and say what worked, and what didn't, and what's a really good app to use in this?

Michael Levine - I'm going to actually jump in for just a second. There's two things I want to say. One, our research is showing a lot of false marketing claims. I'm very concerned about some of the marketing claims. And teachers are usually smart consumers, but a lot of the apps developers are making claims that actually are not backed by evidence. So there are policy solutions to that and we shouldn't spend too much time on that now, but there are things that can be done around false marketing claims. The second thing is I think that teachers need to be more comfortable working with each other on this issue. So when we do group professional development or onsite professional development, ongoing professional development, let's sit together with some of these apps, with some of these sites. Because I think what's happening is there are these new curation tools, Common Sense, Children's Technology Review has been around for a while, Moms With Apps, Teachers With Apps, but they're not informed by practice in the way that they need to be. And if we can get a loop, a more genuine loop going between the practitioners and the folks who are creating, these creation devices can be very, very meaningful. And a lot of it is a phobia. And once you sit with it, once groups of teachers sit with these things they can begin to sort some stuff out that's going to be actually very, very valuable over time.

Chip Donohue - Michael, let me just add when I mentioned tech play groups earlier in my comments, that's exactly what we're talking about. When you get teachers at a school or in a childcare center to all mess around with apps together, low stakes, we're not using them with the kids yet, we're figuring out what they can do first, then really interesting things can happen, and the teachers can all go away, and try something and come back and say what worked and what didn't. So I mean I think there are ways to do this that just happen to good professional development practices.

Michael Levine - And that are fun. Other questions in the room?

Yvette Donado - Yvette Donado, Educational Testing Service. So I'm very excited about this whole technology in the classroom, and of course it should've happened a long time ago, so it's coming very late to the party. However, it will again reinforce the divide. We know the kids in Newark, South Bronx, Harlem, they don't have this technology. So I worry about now again one more time they get disadvantaged in this particular way. So in addition to that I want to hit with the phobia. I have a phobia about our obsession as a people, and I'm talking about America. We do everything in the extreme. You go out to dinner and you watch the parent, the wife, the children all on technology. We have lost our ability to have a conversation. Relationships are not as deep as they used to be, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I am excited and terrified at what this could mean in terms of the unit of the family and our ability to connect on an intimate level with our fellow humans.

Michael Levine - Lisa, this is something that you've been, we've been writing about. But, Ed, do you want to?

Lisa Guernsey - Yeah, I'll jump in and then I know Ed has some points there as well. I think this question of equity and the exacerbating digital divide is a really huge one that we have got to grab ahold of and change the direction on like right now. One of the things that we've found in our research is that it may not be so much the lack of access to a tool or device, but more a lack of opportunity to have a mentor, or this media mentor concept that we've been talking about, lack of opportunity for being able to really kind of dig in and have a relationship, a conversation with someone around the media that they're using, and interacting and playing with. And then some places there is not, there's still not even broadband, absolutely, and that is still an issue that we have to deal with. But it's the use of technology and the divides in the use of that are important as well. So I just was going to note that we see a way out of this that really does mean, number one, starting younger. Number two, recognizing that families, and equipping families to be connected to each other and to resources in our community is a huge and important task to take on in the broadband equity world, and a variety of other things that can start to close those use gaps that we have right now. So and, Ed, did you want to add?

Ed Greene - No, I was just going to say that I agree, but I also think that we need to make sure that we're connecting with the organizations that are beginning to also say they have a concern. The National Association of Media Literacy Education, NAMLE, is an important organization to begin to connect to because many of the individuals who come to that work and to those conferences are people from those very communities that you're talking about. They may be on the margins, but they see the inequities and whatever and they're wanting to work collectively to begin to address some of these. So the last conference that NAMLE had in Philadelphia most recently, there were some very powerful presentations that were done by community-based people who have these concerns. So I think we need to also just start tapping those community-based organizations that are already talking about this, because I find myself in professional meetings where we're talking about the digital divide, and then I go back to a local community group that is basically arming itself to battle against us, but also to be constructive in terms of how they can create opportunities for learning. So I think we need to do that as well.

Michael Levine - We have time for a few more.

Kevin Clark - Let me actually get to or respond to one thing that you said about sitting at a dinner table. I think in addition to all of this professional development that we're talking about doing for caregivers that there needs to be, and I think Ed alluded to it, there needs to be a level of media literacy training for communities and parents, right. And so, yes, all this technology is great, but we need to know where to set the limits. We need to know that at dinnertime no one is on the phone or any device, and your computer needs to be in a place where everybody can see it, so that you're not up in your bedroom watching stuff that you shouldn't watch. So I think helping people understand how to use these powerful tools when you have access to them now or in the future I think is also key because then that builds the relevancy. That says, "Okay, when I get it we need to understand this is how it's going to work in this house."

Michael Levine - We have time for a couple more. I just want to note that we have a number of media producers and technologists in the room, and if any of them want to comment on what they're doing we're open to that. Questions, comments. There's one of them.

Michael Fragale - Michael Fragale with the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and I have really a comment and first a thank you to the panel because we follow your work, and your work has informed public media's work and continues to do that. And to demonstrate that I'm going to pick up on something that Kevin said about his wish if he had money to grant. We are very; your wish is our command, Kevin, because we are very fortunate and humble to be the recipients of another Ready To Learn grant. And I want to just tell everyone and to make a commitment from public media to everyone that we really hear that notion of community. And so our proposal to the Department of Ed, and it was really to the Department's credit, sort of pushing applicants to think about not just the creation of content, and not just the creation of ways that content gets pushed out, but really new ways to create that content where you're bringing the community in, you're bringing in end users to sort of influence the development of that content. And in our case, we put equal weight in our proposal, and will put equal work and dollars behind this idea of having communities be part of the use, making sure that the content that we create is used for the people it's intended to be used by and that they know how to access and use it. So we are funding 30 what we're calling community collaboratives for early learning and media, where a public media station will partner with housing authorities, local media clinics, local health clinics, libraries, schools, educators, not only to just use our content, but tell us what content you need for your particular context and environment to make it work. So we're really, hope you can tell, excited about this, and we're going to depend on all of you to help keep us honest and inform the work that we're doing. And so I think it's really we've turned a corner. We have learned in the last five ten years that; I'll tell you a quick little story. When we wrote the last grant for Ready To Learn, we thought it was all about platform. We thought it was all about what content do you create for mobile? What content do you create for TV? What content do you create for web experience? Oh, yeah, and we're going to have some on-the-ground stuff too. But we quickly learned in the doing of this work, and the research that EDC and WestEd and SRI did for us told us that that's not what it's about at all. Content is content. It's about how you curate that content as you all said. It's about how you sequence that content, and really importantly how you mediate that content. Because we'd like to think that kids can take a device and be on their own, but really there's a sense of mediation that happens with a parent, with a teacher or whatever that is so critical, and that's why these community collaboratives are going to play such a great role. So thanks for giving me some time to say that and thank you.

Michael Levine - Very exciting. Thank you for doing that, Michael, and now that's going to leverage a $25 million entrepreneurial fund.

Ed Greene - I just have a quickie to put in here also as a result of some things on the Joan Ganz Cooney website. We had a coming together, and Kevin and I were talking about this earlier. As a result of one of the blogs there were a group of people who began to connect with each other wanting to know more about diversity in the kinds of things that are done in apps and books. So there is a site that has been founded by a small group called And several of us are founding members of that particular group, but it's a collective that's coming together to talk about those issues because they're important to us now. And I think this conversation today will hopefully bring others to the website so that we can continue to grow the conversation.

Michael Levine - Time for one more from the audience? Whoever has the microphone first and we'll try to squeeze both in.

Barbara Steinem - Thank you, and it's hard to follow the last one, but nevertheless. I'm Barbara Steinem with the Partnership for 21st Century Learning, and my question is, and this was before I was doing that, in the early years with ed technology there was another part of the digital divide where studies were finding that the way and the software, etcetera, that was being used in low-income schools was dramatically different from the software and the applications in the affluent schools, and that actually it was kind of remedial. I remember going to a school that was supposed to be the best school. It looked like Star Trek, you know, like Star Trek, but when you went in they were doing automated flashcards and that it was actually the use, well, the use and the software were so dramatically different that it was actually harmful for how it was being used. Is that still an issue in communities in terms of use?

Ed Greene - I just want to respond. Having served as an instructional leadership coach for three years in the Detroit public schools most recently, I did see in fact that kind of thing happening, but I don't want to blame-the-victim kind of a discussion to go on because what happens is that the things that people are held accountable for, like you have to, you either improve or your school is going to close and you'll be replaced, are making people use whatever they're given in whatever way they can to make it look like they're trying to make it work. Because when the vendors come in and they provide this software, a SMART Table, or a board or whatever, one person probably is going to be trained and they're told, "Okay, go back to the school and you train the others." Well, number one, we're having a difficult time meeting those needs with those children, but we're not specialists in adult learning. So now we have another problem. Adult-adult relationships are key, and I was going to get back to what you were saying. If we don't build these communities of practices where adults learn how to be able to talk with each other and that you have instructional leaders who provide the time for that, they're never going to be able to use those materials anyway. And this has been true over the years in many of the schools that have been caught in this bind of being failures, and being told they're failures, and then being given all of these things that producers give them, publishers give them, and that they're not used in the ways in which they were designed to be used because there isn't opportunity for people to sit and actually work through some things, so it is true.

Michael Levine - Do we have one last question? I want to get in if somebody really wanted to ask a question.

End of Technology and Young Children's Learning video.

Video duration: 1:18:27